Wednesday, February 04, 2015

IWSG: Writers Don't Tell You Everything

It's the first Wednesday of the month, which means it's the day to post about your insecurities. Add your name to the list to join in!



I had another post planned for this month, but a post from essayist and novelist Ann Bauer derailed my plans. The post was titled 
“Sponsored” by my husband: Why it’s a problem that writers never talk about where their money comes from. It immediately began making the Twitter rounds.

Bauer makes some excellent points. We all pretty much know that most novelists aren't millionaires. We do assume, however, that truly successful writers have more money than they know what to do with. It's what we all aspire to, right?



But as Bauer's post points out, many successful novelists fall well short of a working income. It takes me back to a comment someone made when I first started out. I posted on a forum that I just wanted to make enough to quit my job. 

"Most writers will never be able to quit our day jobs," she wrote in a personal email to me. "Sorry."



At the time, I thought it was an odd assumption for her to make. She had no idea what my situation was. I could have been making poverty-level wages as a state employee (I pretty much was!). I could be satisfied living on next-to-nothing. I could have been married to a super billionaire. Okay, on that last one, I probably would have been able to quit my job without a writing contract, but you get the point!



In her article, Bauer mentions authors who inherit fortunes, marry spouses who support them, and work full-time jobs to support their careers, even while they're assumed to have "made it" as novelists.



Most published novelists I know have full-time jobs. Those who don't are moms, married to husbands with reliable incomes. Some, like me, make an income writing or editing to pay the bills.

Should writers disclose the truth about their incomes, as Bauer suggested? Or is it better for us to assume that anyone who hits the bestseller list is set for life?

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93 comments:

  1. Only if we're comfortable doing so. (I've always thought it odd that people will ask me how much I make as an author while never dreaming of asking how much I make at my job.)
    And that 'Your ecards' is so true!

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    1. I think most people don't discuss how much they make...but I guess the point is that there's this myth that authors can make a livable wage writing when that mostly isn't the case. I've often heard that musicians make all their money touring. It sounds similar with children's authors who make most of their money doing school visits! It's the author version of a rock concert, I guess.

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  2. I don't think writers should disclose the truth about their incomes unless they want to. They should feel no pressure to do so.

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    1. I think her point was that if you're heir to a fortune, don't make people think your books bought that brand new Porsche! (Or whatever car it is rich people drive these days.) I attended a workshop last fall where a VERY successful multi-published author said that with extensive school visits, she now makes as much as she made at a day job. That was pretty eye-opening, I think. Even with 10-20 books on shelves with a major publisher and having won multiple awards, authors have to supplement their incomes by traveling from school to school.

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  3. I think that even though the truth is not glamorous, that is what should be told.... I can understand that unless you write a book that becomes a massive best seller, you more than likely don't earn enough money to just write. I think most writers write for the love of writing... (it wouldn't hurt if they made enough money to live on) :)

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    1. That would help! I make enough money writing to live on--but right now I'm writing about server moving companies...not exactly the stuff many aspiring writers dream of, but it's perfect for me.

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  4. most of the writers I know are stay at home moms :)

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    1. That is true. In those cases, basically their husbands are subsidizing their careers (going by what the author of that article classified it as).

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  5. haha yeah, it sure isn't something you can live off of. But it buy groceries for the month at least, so every little bit helps As for disclosing I think it's a personal choice.

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    1. Definitely a personal choice. Although when I was a member of Romance Writers of America, they would do regular surveys of members to find out how much they made on each book. It was all anonymous--but it would give the average earn out for each type of romance novel and it kind of gave you an idea of how many books you'd have to get published each year to make a decent living. I think it was around 4 or 5 of the bigger books... That's how many category romance novelists do it. They just publish multiple books every year but most of my category romance novelist friends work their booties off!

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  6. I always like when I get honest feedback about the reality of the income for writers. But I wouldn't think it necessary for all writers to share their incomes if they didn't feel comfortable.

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    1. Perhaps some writer's organization should do a survey where the information is kept anonymous? That may already exist...although there are so many different organizations, it wouldn't be an overall picture of the industry as a whole.

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  7. I think it should be a personal choice. People are usually going to make assumptions regardless. Many people assume doctors and lawyers make a lot of money but not all of them do.

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    1. Not at all. For many careers, you can look up the median salary online by city. The median salary for writers and authors is $55,940 per year, but that's factoring in all the freelancers, the bestselling novelists, the successful screenwriters, etc. I think it's so dramatic on both ends of the spectrum, it's difficult to figure out what you'd really make.

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  8. No, I don't think they need to disclose what they make. That is not public information in my opinion.

    betty

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  9. I think how much a writer makes is personal. No one ever asked what my income was when I was teaching. Or when I worked as a secretary.

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    1. When I was a government employee, our salaries were posted online. It kinda sucked!

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  10. It would certainly be nice to know what the average income of a mid list author is, but I understand why people are private about it. Money can definitely be a personal thing for people.
    I agree though, that you tend to hear one end or the other. Writers are all rich, or don't quit your day job. ;-)

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    1. I think most people want to know what they could make before they put years into writing for $0 per year...maybe they want to know if that investment will pay off. It probably won't, so it's important to write for reasons that have nothing to do with money.

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  11. 99% of the full time writers I know are/were stay at home moms with a hubby who has a pretty good job to support the family. I think many of them were inspired by Stephane Meyer to pursue a writing career. Kudos to them!

    I, on the other hand, happen to be the breadwinner and sole provider for my family. So I don't have the opportunity to pursue the writing-thing with all that gusto. I've got to put food on the table, and my job isn't a 9-5 job either, so it's tough.

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    1. I think most households now rely on two incomes--I don't know how these stay at home moms do it. They must have married some pretty big wage-earners! It's hard to live on just one salary now.

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  12. It's tough because most writers still have to maintain a day job to make enough money to live on. I've been on a job break for a while and am having to make a decision to get a regular 9 to 5 job again or try to break into freelance writing & editing. I'm not even published yet, so that dream novel is definitely not paying the bills!

    February IWSG Co-host

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    1. Elance is great for finding freelance writing jobs. Or FreelanceWritingGigs.com. You just often have to apply for quite a few before you find that "one."

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  13. We often don't want to talk about our income because such matters are private, but I think it would be a good idea for authors to come out and set the record straight for all the aspiring writers out there who believe they can write and become J.K. Rowling. My books have barely given me enough money to buy a tank of gas! lol Well, my eBooks anyway as that's all I've published so far.

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    1. I think the problem is, people give the incorrect impression that all of their money comes from writing. No two writers are equal. Some have husbands who make six figures, some supplement their writing income with paid appearances, and some inherited a fortune thanks to rich parents... In those cases, they should be honest that their one published novel didn't pay for the mansions they live in!

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  14. I don't think any writer should feel pressured to reveal anything about income, but I do agree with Chrys that it might be a good thing to set the record straight about the realities for most writers.

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    1. When I started, there were more than a few naysayers, for sure. It seemed all I saw was negativity. At the time it was depressing because I was in a job I didn't like at all. But I did meet a lot of novelists at that time who were making a living writing--they just were extremely prolific. That helps!

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  15. awesome post, and here's my take: I read this article last week. I just don't make enough. I help my my bro out part time. I've applied to a million things in TV and most ppl who get hired have connections. All in all, I rely heavily on my family (parents and bro who are insanely supportive) and they're falling on incredibly hard times right now too...long sob story short, I have had a ton of people tell me to "just go to a conference!" and I know for a fact they don't work at all and have incredibly rich husbands. That frustrates me a lot. I'd love to go, but that extra $ has to go to bills or food. That being said, I absolutely don't think anyone should feel any need to discuss where there $ comes from, but they also shouldn't tell others what to do when they are blatantly being supported.

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    1. Yeah, I see a lot of writers flying around the country to attend conferences. You have to weigh the cost of travel plus registration fees and booth fees against how much of a difference it will make in sales. Often the numbers just don't add up.

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  16. I don't know, I feel like it's pretty much been out there that writers don't make tons of money unless their books are freakishly successful----there just aren't that many receptive ears listening to the information. I've tried many times to set my non-writing friends and unpuslished writer friends straight about the realities or writerly income, but they still don't get it.

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    1. Nobody really wants to hear it. I think the real eye-opener would be if we knew what some of our favorite authors really made. For instance, I read the above-linked blog because it was retweeted by Meg Cabot--whom I assume makes a fairly sizable income. I might be assuming incorrectly on that, though... That's just one example I can come up with of a very prolific author who has multiple books out a year plus a movie deal in her past...who might not be making big bucks.

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  17. definitely wouldn't want to be married to a billionaire, but... :)

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    1. Nah, but a big lottery windfall wouldn't hurt!

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  18. I had never though of writers living a glamorous life. I think the only one that comes to mind is Richard Castle, who is fictitious. All the rest, I imagine them slaving away at a keyboard and doing their best to pitch ideas. I suppose I'm lucky I work a job I love.

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    1. Perhaps part of the misconception comes from how authors are portrayed in fiction. Always living in some fancy apartment/house, typing away on their typewriters even though it's 2015!

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  19. I've never wanted to be a writer, but those that love it I get. One must always do what they love.

    Have a fabulous day. ☺

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    1. True, even if it means being poor!

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  20. I blogged about something like this on Monday, and honestly it's rather frustrating to me to see people who are doing so much with their work...because they can afford it, both with time and money. I have very little of both and as much as I actually love my day job, it's not like it or writing come close to make it so that I'm "rolling it in" :)

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    1. I spent 13 years working in I.T., hoping I could someday quit to write full-time. As it turned out, that experience in I.T. gave me a background that allowed me to land some of the higher-paying freelance writing jobs. (Not many people want to write about server equipment or the benefits of cloud computing!) So you actually never really know where you path might lead you...

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  21. Truthfully, I think we should all be given the "fake it til you make it" blind-eye. The illusion often lends to credibility.

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    1. That is true. We're all making big bucks! When I see people I used to work with and tell them I make the majority of my money freelance writing, I can tell they don't really care. They don't see my full-time life as a writer as "the dream." Being a novelist is the glamorous part...and they'll believe what they want to believe.

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  22. It's nice if you can make over $20,000 a year as a writer, but unfortunately, there are very few of us who do. Most have to work another job, as I do.

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    1. True--fortunately my other job is writing! Not as fun as making up characters, but still completely awesome.

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  23. I think it is true of most artists, whatever their field. And has always been true. A sad indictment of the value our society puts on creativity.
    Which is another reason that writers (artists more generally) awe me. Talent - and determination and sheer hard work. Lots of all three of them.

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    1. I went to school to be a TV reporter and it was the same in that field--a handful of "superstars" make all the money and everyone else is at poverty level. INCLUDING those reporters you see out there covering stories.

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  24. The article does bring up an interesting point - people sometimes have unrealistic expectations of writing and publishing. Recently, I've noticed more authors being open about their incomes than there have been in the past.

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    1. I think it's important...starting down the path toward being a published author is a HUGE commitment. People need to know that they may work for years and years and not reach minimum wage--but if they do it for the love of writing, it won't matter!

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  25. That is a good question. I hadn't thought of it the way Bauer put it. I think it might be a "secret" because no one wants others to judge their writing success on how much money they make. Though I certainly wouldn't mind making enough to live on, I don't want that to be the only reason I write. I tried that and it killed my desire to write anything. So, I don't know that it's a good thing one way or the other, to "disclose" what my income is. I guess if I made more, I'd want to encourage wannabe's with that knowledge. On the other hand, I'd hate to take away their reason for writing by making it all about money, unless that's what they're all ready in it for!!! Good thoughtful post. Also, I wanted to thank you for volunteering to help out on the A to Z. You'd commented on Alex's post and if you haven't already decided to go with one of the other co-hosts, I'd love to invite you to my team. If you'd like, please send an email to writeme@lisabuiecollard.com and let me know if you're still interested. Thanks again, no matter what team you chose! We all will be grateful for the help!

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    1. I think (and I could be wrong) that we aren't supposed to disclose the actual figures if we're with a set publisher. People have asked me how much of an advance I received and I always refuse to answer. (Rude question, of course!!!) I thinkmost publishers want that information kept under lock and key.

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  26. You bring up some interesting points about the dollar value in being an author. Harper Lee wrote one book(well now she is publishing a 2nd one..at least I hope it is her and not people who are taking advantage of her) and it is a "BIG" book! I don't know if she did anything else but very few are lucky to reach that pinnacle. Finances are a very personal thing and i would know since I am a Credit Counsellor. People generally don't ask how much one makes when they say they work as a nurse or teacher or at a bank so why do they feel they have the right to ask a writer how much they are making? As soon as someone is creating something artistic whether it be a novel or art piece, the average person thinks it is perfectly OK to ask this and then judge to boot! If a person wants to say it, great and if not that's great too but all should respect that. Not everyone is a starving artist and not everyone is in a palace there are many who can make a living but it is a humble one. If the average person can make a living writing, pay their bills, save and enjoy a little then that's great. We do not have to be in a mansion or living in a hovel.

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    1. But I wonder if Harper Lee has been able to live on that one book all these years? Or was having wealth in her family part of her survival...

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  27. I personally would love to know what successful writers make. The answer is so elusive and it varies from person to person, but it would be great to have an idea. Then again, I guess it doesn't matter too much, because if you love to write, you'll keep at it regardless of the pay out in the end.

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    1. I agree. Aside from being able to pay the bills, I'd say we'd all do it for nothing. Unfortunately, the electric company doesn't take well-written manuscripts as payment!

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  28. A most thought provoking post on something that I have never given much thought to. I don't (and I don't think most writers) write for the money it could bring. Oh it would be nice to hit the 'big time', but on a more realistic scale; I write because I have to. The stories just want to get out. I also have to admit there are some that I need to write, just for me.

    That said, I don't think it's any of my business what other writers make. If they've been published they've made it. If they make the 'best seller' list of anyone, they've hit the big time. If they win awards it's the bonanza lode. At least that's were I would be.

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    1. You're right. Money means very little in the grand scheme of things!

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  29. It's sad in a way people would assume you'd be set for life if you hit the bestseller list, and yet it's not their business whether it's true or not. I'm torn on privacy but also wanting people to know it's just not a high paying job for the majority of writers. It's not a big deal in my mind either way, but just in general, I guess the awareness wouldn't hurt.

    The posters made me laugh, by the way ;)

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    1. I think for me, I just wanted to make a full-time living as a writer. It would be great if 100 percent of that living came from fiction writing...but I'll settle for whatever percentage I can get, as long as I'm writing the rest of the time!

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  30. Stephanie, I don't need to know how much money your best seller book (s) will bring you but I sure hope that you'll be living comfortably. Success is not defined by how much money one makes but by how they love their job.

    Wishing you great success.
    Hugs,
    JB

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    1. Definitely true, Julia! If I had a bestseller book, I'd be happy no matter how much money I made. Just knowing that many people read my book(s) would mean so much more than money ever could.

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  31. Good post. And so true. The 'don't quit your day job' certainly applies to me...well except that I'm getting ready to retire, grin, but that's not due to my writing.
    I have so much admiration for Stephen King, a true rags to riches story. Keeps the dream alive.

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    1. I worked for years, saying someday I'd retire and write full-time. I left 11 years before retirement (if I'd put in 30 years)...now I figure I'll just write until my brain doesn't work anymore!

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  32. I guess income is one of those taboo topics. I never discussed my income when I worked in I.T., even though I would have been proud of it, but I just never did. I don't think it's any different in publishing.

    I love that eCard! Totally sharing it.

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    1. I don't think I've ever worked in a job where it was okay to discuss your income, now that I think about it. Usually employers don't want employees taking notes. I think it's the same with publishers and writers, even though we aren't employees.

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  33. This was a very good discussion topic. As I would one day like to be a writer I did know that most authors don't get the amount of income some other people assume they do. Which is okay in my opinion -- the people who want to be rich don't really choose this line of work to make them that way. But what I admire most about authors is that they put in all that grueling work even if they know it might not profit them so much. They are working for something above and beyond money (although having a little income from writing helps.)

    And it definitely is admirable to be working a full time job and be writing as well!

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    1. Someone once said that you write because you can't not write. (Double negative and all--it's a powerful statement!) That's really the only reason to do it. People say there are easier ways to make a living...for my freelance writing, I can't think of an easier way for me, though. It's just natural for me to write all day.

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  34. Sad but true. If I could even swing part-time work and writing, I'd be happy.

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    1. I was working toward retirement so I could write full-time...I didn't quite make it 30 years at my job, though!

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  35. Money is a great motivator, but not necessarily to creative people.

    I'm in the "what I make is none of your biz" camp, only said nicely. Once, while working as a nurse, a family member of a patient (on a ventilator) was making comments about how he thought nurses were over paid. It was so rude, and here was this person on a vent - totally dependent on nurses, and getting great care.

    "Sir, you pay $30 dollars to let someone change your oil, right? He only works for 10 minutes and doesn't keep anyone alive. I don't make $30 an hour, You tell ME if nurses are overpaid for what they do, " I remarked.

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    1. WAIT!!! Nurses are overpaid? I don't think that's true at all! Where on Earth did he get that idea? Athletes make millions of dollars a year just to entertain us.

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  36. As curious as I am, I tend to subscribe to the "it's better not to know what the other person makes" model. My husband just found out a co-worker who up and bought a house on the other side of the country is getting her plane tickets to her new house once per month paid for by work. He said he wished he didn't know, because that's basically a raise that none of the rest of them are getting. Or a bonus they aren't getting. He would have been happier not knowing she was being extended this extra. Ignorance is bliss? I don't think anyone should feel like they have to expose how much they're making.

    I do remember my first writer's conference where I had hopes of good money dashed. Now I go forward with more realistic (but still hopeful) views. Who doesn't want to be one of the ones who hit it big?

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    1. It depends what you write, too. Romance novelists can make a decent living if they're prolific. Children's writers can supplement their books with school visits (although I'm hearing those are getting MUCH more competitive). You can also supplement by editing other people's manuscripts or freelance writing articles and blogs, as I do. I'm not a very good editor so I just write all the time.

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  37. Enjoyed your blog post. I'm in the same camp of the nobody's business how much money I make. That's how I was brought up, I guess. Writers write period. But I hate it when they give their writing away. I did freelance articles before fiction and I was insulted when ezines would offer a writer pennies per word or want an article free (for exposure). Grrrrrr...Writers cannot allow the mindset of your research, interviews, etc are worth nothing! For some reason, it is acceptable to write thousands of words in a fiction novel and know you won't make money on it. Why is that? Stars in our eyes? Our dream to write?

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    1. You're preaching to the choir with that one!!! "Should be an easy job" is a term that makes me cringe (followed, of course, by the offering price of $1 for 500 words!). I can't imagine the kind of writing they get for that price. Usually they choose someone for whom English isn't even a native language, which seems odd to me. I also am perplexed when a regular client of mine pays me extra to write "a really good article." I never really know what to do in that case. I always put my best into everything I do...it's not like I halfway do it unless someone pays me extra!

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  38. Interesting post. I think the big question is: would you keep writing if you knew you'd never make big money from it? I would answer yes. I just want to write, and I'm lucky enough to be a stay-at-home mom with time to do so while my son is in school. I'm curious as to what authors make, but I don't think they should have to disclose it. Even if they did, I don't think it would deter those who really wanted to write and follow their dreams.

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    1. I'm with you--I'd keep writing even if I knew I'd never make big money doing it. I'd just keep plugging away at my freelance writing to make up the difference.

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  39. First off, that J.K. Rowling meme is everything. I read the article you linked to. Interesting discussion! I think it's fine to be honest about your situation as an author so that other authors know what to expect. But other than that, I don't think that authors have an obligation to reveal anything--not their weight, real hair color, and certainly not their income as writers, no matter how small or large!

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    1. Weight? No way!!! I never disclose that.

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  40. It's like scientists in the 1800's. Most of them came from wealth, had the time to appease their scientific curiosity. Now, it's a job.

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    1. I didn't know that! I've learned something new today.

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  41. Hi Stephanie! I remember when I expressed an interest in writing, my friend told me, quite off-handedly "No one ever got rich writing." Hmmm. I didn't think I'd be rich, but I sure thought more writers had it made. The more I get around to read blogs, and have some experience myself, I see how true that is.
    I don't see any reason why writers can't be up-front about their income. If you feel like you have to write, chances are you'll keep doing it regardless of money anyway.

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    1. That's all kinds of wrong! J.K. Rowling is among the richest women in the world, isn't she? And I don't even want to think about the money Stephen King has made...not to mention Danielle Steel and John Grisham. I think Nicholas Sparks has done fairly well for himself, as well. In fact, I'd say quite a few people have gotten rich writing...but as with most fields, there are only a small number of superstars. The difference with writing is that I think you have a lot more people doing it for absolutely nothing, but it's definitely possible to make a living wage if you have talent and are willing to work. Making millions? Probably not...but it's worth giving it a shot!

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  42. When I first started writing, I taught full-time. Now I edit to pay the bills. Writing is a tough business. Unless you become a huge success, you need other methods of paying the bills.

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  43. I don't think writers owe it to anyone (other than the IRS) to report the source of their income. Making a living in any art is very tough. I knew a few professional musicians in NYC - people who one would assume had hit the big time - who were still working 60+ hour weeks. They just couldn't afford to say no. Once they did, the calls would stop coming. That's part of why I teach public school instead. Salary, benefits - hooray!

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  44. I dislike it when people ask me about advances and royalties. I find that intrusive, and judgmental if I were to tell them the truth (that it's not a big quarterly check). When I was a teenager I had the fantasy of writing full-time, with movie deals falling into my lap, but I'm comfortable today with a day job and writing on the side.

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  45. Wait, bestselling authors can't support themselves with their writing??? Seriously?? What the heck?! I think there's something wrong with the industry if you can hit the top lists and STILL have to keep your day job! UGH.

    I don't think they should have to reveal their pay, no, but I DO think a realistic view of the industry and pay scales and everything would be helpful!

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  46. I am thrilled for you that you are making a living doing something you love . I don't think anyone needs to know what anyone makes!

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  47. I had a student ask my age today. I told her "over 21". "But under what?" I replied, "100."

    I don't feel comfortable telling kids my age. Many people don't feel comfortable telling others their income. I guess we should all just disclose what we feel comfortable disclosing. And who cares what anyone else believes?

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  48. I think many people assume that writers make a lot of money- even if they haven't hit the best seller list. It is surprising to find out how few writers can support themselves on their writing money alone. Still, I love to write. :)
    ~Jess

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  49. Lots of writers I know have a day job and the rest take up editing work to pay bills. I'm not confident in being an editor. I teach part-time and am quite fortunate not to be in any debt. Honestly, it'll be quite some time before writing provides me a solid income! (I've come to terms with that so I'm not really disappointed.)

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  50. writing doesnt pay, starving artists is a reality, and not many can make a living at what they love =(
    not stopping me!

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  51. I'd rather keep believing in the myth of the wealthy writer. It keeps me going. ;)

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